One thing The Batman does incredibly well is giving a sense of scope to Gotham as a New York/Chicago-esque city eternally in fear of water and one bad weather day. While Burton's sets lent his film a gothic (ar ar ar) sense and Joel Schumacher turned his into a mixture of spires and neon, Nolan's Gotham was simply "CHICAGO" or "NEW YORK WALL STREET (for those few scenes in Dark Knight Rises). The Batman is neat in how Gotham absorbs all major city structures into a kitbashing of different ides but still it being so large (the exterior shot of the knockoff Madison Square Garden) that it is almost impossible to get around. I would assume this is a mix of filming in London and incorporating CG backgrounds but it's an interesting expansion into how to view the setting.
And as New Yorker, New Yorkness of DKR really made movie work for me. (It really only Pittsburgh for stadium scene). When explosions go off all over city, it not look like movie set (like Begins version of Gotham does), it look like Manhattan, so when me see that smoke, me can smell scent me still remember from 9/11. When Batsignal light up on Brooklyn Bridge, Batman not just coming to rescue on movie screen, Batman *here* to save *home*. It pack real emotional wallop, although me understand that might not ring true for people who not live here.
On a completely different tangent this reminds me of my most insane pet peeve which is how Morning Glory (2010) with Rachel McAdams turns New York into a spatial nightmare where she walks to work (Bryant Park) from Williamsburg (it's far, believe me) every day and then meets a co-worker around the corner from work (at a bar famously in the Lower East Side) before the final montage of her running to Harrison Ford, cooking an omelet, from 34th Street to 48th Street in under two minutes. That said two of the best NYC spatial films, to this day, remain Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist and Mulberry Street.
Me thought of Nick and Norah's before me got halfway through reading comment! It get everything exactly right... except one small thing that still irk me, which is that Nick live in Hoboken... in suburban house with lawn that not exist in Hoboken. Why not film establishing shot in Hoboken? Or say he live in Montclair? Why mess up that one detail when every other detail note-perfect?
I really do love the feel that BB gives Gotham, where it truly feels like there are parts of the city that the police have completely abandoned, that are lawless hellholes
this is good content, Keith. love discursive tangent posts, whether there's a news peg or not.
as an aside, i would love to see Gotham content that incorporates, like, the northeast's weather extremes. has there ever been a batman storyline with a "Do The Right Thing"-kind of humid heat wave, where everyone is dripping with sweat and it makes the crazies even crazier?
So I have this working theory that Gotham is basically a large east coast city but with New Orleans style decadence and corruption. I guess you could consider NYC decadent and corrupt but not in the same vein as NOLA, where both are almost celebrated. I also think it has a thriving bohemian culture but that's not something that can be incorporated into a Batman movie (nor do I want to see them try, though I guess there are elements in Batman Returns portrayal of pre-Catwoman Selina.)
The big question for Gotham is: why live there? I feel like the reasoning has to be how it draws elites, finance, etc.: it's a fun city if you're rich. I really liked what "Batman: White Knight" did with the Joker's background: have his pre-Joker self be a country bumpkin who comes to the Big City for joy and opportunity, only to get ground in the dust. How many of us haven't reached for the heights of NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. (or even smaller cities that are big in comparison to where we grew up?) only to be chewed up and spat back out by expensive rent, lack of quality jobs, an unfeeling populace, and other reasons?
I think the fact that Nolan's Gotham was so obviously an actual city as opposed to sets made it feel somehow safer for me? I don't know why, like you said, it's a shithole in Begins.
One thing The Batman does incredibly well is giving a sense of scope to Gotham as a New York/Chicago-esque city eternally in fear of water and one bad weather day. While Burton's sets lent his film a gothic (ar ar ar) sense and Joel Schumacher turned his into a mixture of spires and neon, Nolan's Gotham was simply "CHICAGO" or "NEW YORK WALL STREET (for those few scenes in Dark Knight Rises). The Batman is neat in how Gotham absorbs all major city structures into a kitbashing of different ides but still it being so large (the exterior shot of the knockoff Madison Square Garden) that it is almost impossible to get around. I would assume this is a mix of filming in London and incorporating CG backgrounds but it's an interesting expansion into how to view the setting.
It feels like a real place, for sure. As a Chicagoan, I do have a special appreciation for the Chicago-ness of the first two Nolan movies (and remain kind of bummed he went to Pittsburgh for Dark Knight Rises.). Wrote this a couple of years ago: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/17/17570628/the-dark-knight-batman-chicago-shooting-locations
And as New Yorker, New Yorkness of DKR really made movie work for me. (It really only Pittsburgh for stadium scene). When explosions go off all over city, it not look like movie set (like Begins version of Gotham does), it look like Manhattan, so when me see that smoke, me can smell scent me still remember from 9/11. When Batsignal light up on Brooklyn Bridge, Batman not just coming to rescue on movie screen, Batman *here* to save *home*. It pack real emotional wallop, although me understand that might not ring true for people who not live here.
On a completely different tangent this reminds me of my most insane pet peeve which is how Morning Glory (2010) with Rachel McAdams turns New York into a spatial nightmare where she walks to work (Bryant Park) from Williamsburg (it's far, believe me) every day and then meets a co-worker around the corner from work (at a bar famously in the Lower East Side) before the final montage of her running to Harrison Ford, cooking an omelet, from 34th Street to 48th Street in under two minutes. That said two of the best NYC spatial films, to this day, remain Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist and Mulberry Street.
edit: frittata, not omelet. frittata.
Me thought of Nick and Norah's before me got halfway through reading comment! It get everything exactly right... except one small thing that still irk me, which is that Nick live in Hoboken... in suburban house with lawn that not exist in Hoboken. Why not film establishing shot in Hoboken? Or say he live in Montclair? Why mess up that one detail when every other detail note-perfect?
I really do love the feel that BB gives Gotham, where it truly feels like there are parts of the city that the police have completely abandoned, that are lawless hellholes
Me would rather be dead in Gotham than alive in South Carolina!
In the last section, I believe you mean "Batman v Superman," not "Batman v Robin." But I would love to see a film where Batman fights Robin!
this is good content, Keith. love discursive tangent posts, whether there's a news peg or not.
as an aside, i would love to see Gotham content that incorporates, like, the northeast's weather extremes. has there ever been a batman storyline with a "Do The Right Thing"-kind of humid heat wave, where everyone is dripping with sweat and it makes the crazies even crazier?
So I have this working theory that Gotham is basically a large east coast city but with New Orleans style decadence and corruption. I guess you could consider NYC decadent and corrupt but not in the same vein as NOLA, where both are almost celebrated. I also think it has a thriving bohemian culture but that's not something that can be incorporated into a Batman movie (nor do I want to see them try, though I guess there are elements in Batman Returns portrayal of pre-Catwoman Selina.)
The big question for Gotham is: why live there? I feel like the reasoning has to be how it draws elites, finance, etc.: it's a fun city if you're rich. I really liked what "Batman: White Knight" did with the Joker's background: have his pre-Joker self be a country bumpkin who comes to the Big City for joy and opportunity, only to get ground in the dust. How many of us haven't reached for the heights of NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. (or even smaller cities that are big in comparison to where we grew up?) only to be chewed up and spat back out by expensive rent, lack of quality jobs, an unfeeling populace, and other reasons?
I think the fact that Nolan's Gotham was so obviously an actual city as opposed to sets made it feel somehow safer for me? I don't know why, like you said, it's a shithole in Begins.