IMO, the critical thing about Civil War that The Discoursers overlook is that it treats the politics of a civil war in America with pretty much the same level of (dis)interest most American war films treat the politics of conflict in every other country. It’s always just ornamentation to give action movies a jolt of relevance and urgency. That the heroes in CW are photojournalists—that is, people responsible for depicting and crafting a narrative about the war—is not a coincidence. For me this was the film’s angriest and most interesting provocation.
You could include Ex Machina and Annihilation, too. Both have other themes they're interested in more, but both of them take place in isolated situations where a small group gets to redefine/recreate societal dynamics. The end of Ex Machina reminds me a lot Survivor, with both Nathan and Ava trying to get Caleb to be their swing vote.
Great exploration of his work. I think where I would quibble is that with Civil War I believe he really is - especially in comparison to his other works - just making some pretty trite centrist points. I would have been inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and put in the work to tease out the ideas he could be exploring with Civil War, but I believe the interviews he’s given really push against this in a way that they haven’t previously. I heard him say “I am a centrist” the other day in an interview. Where his other films have a lot of meat on the bone even if they are very elliptical and cagey, I think he’s pretty straightforwardly trying to convey some ideas I find about 10-steps behind relevance whether politics or journalism. What I’ve seen from the discourse is a lot of people, if they’re fans of his, trying hard to find depth or provocation in a film they initially find relatively empty. His statements on it reveal to me that he actually does have plenty of concrete ideas he’d like to convey with Civil War, it’s just that they’re dopey and inane ideas.
Let artists make art. Let cable news and social media generate didacticism and a lack of awareness that anything has happened or will happen outside of this very moment.
This is the kind of thematic-tying analysis I adore from The Reveal. ❤️ Four movies I would not have put together -- it's like the purple ("tricky") Connections word game on the New York Times, four words that don't seem to relate to one another but they do upon some thought.
I feel like a dum-dum for not recognizing the major's name in 28 Days Later is West -- i.e., western civ? Maybe it's a stretch...maybe it should be Newest. 😁
28 Days Later is Day Of The Triffids starting with “guy wakes up in abandoned hospital” right through to “I promised them women”. Seriously, read the book, it’s really good.
Never Let me Go sounds an awful lot like Parts: The Clonus Horror, which made for a wonderful MST3K episode.
Annihilation is Roadside Picnic/Stalker. At least the movie adaption of Annihilation is pretty good. The book reads like somebody watched Stalker once, didn't understand it, didn't know it was based on a book, and figured nobody in America had seen the soviet movie.
This is a trend that has gone on for as long as people have making things. Artists borrow, steal, recycle, and pay homage to previous works all the time. I haven't seen Never Let Me Go, but I've read the book, and it is most certainly indebted to existing science fiction concepts. But in all of Kazuo Ishiguro's novels special the premise is only important insofar as it serves as a vehicle for what really interests him (the nature of subjective and experience and the tension between how we see ourselves and our lives and the reality of them—or something like that.)
Likewise, while I agree that Roadside Picnic is a better book than Annihilation, I'm certain Jeff VanderMeer has read the former, and over Annihilation and it's two sequels takes those borrowed (or stolen, if you insist) ideas somewhere different. I think that's inevitable, actually, given what a different time and place he inhabits from the Strugatsy brothers.
Anyway, all I'm saying is, good art doesn't need to come from being new, it can come from a making an existing idea new again, or even just using it as a ladder to reach something else.
IMO, the critical thing about Civil War that The Discoursers overlook is that it treats the politics of a civil war in America with pretty much the same level of (dis)interest most American war films treat the politics of conflict in every other country. It’s always just ornamentation to give action movies a jolt of relevance and urgency. That the heroes in CW are photojournalists—that is, people responsible for depicting and crafting a narrative about the war—is not a coincidence. For me this was the film’s angriest and most interesting provocation.
That's a great, great point.
You could include Ex Machina and Annihilation, too. Both have other themes they're interested in more, but both of them take place in isolated situations where a small group gets to redefine/recreate societal dynamics. The end of Ex Machina reminds me a lot Survivor, with both Nathan and Ava trying to get Caleb to be their swing vote.
Good point. Counterpoint: This piece was already so so long!
Great exploration of his work. I think where I would quibble is that with Civil War I believe he really is - especially in comparison to his other works - just making some pretty trite centrist points. I would have been inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and put in the work to tease out the ideas he could be exploring with Civil War, but I believe the interviews he’s given really push against this in a way that they haven’t previously. I heard him say “I am a centrist” the other day in an interview. Where his other films have a lot of meat on the bone even if they are very elliptical and cagey, I think he’s pretty straightforwardly trying to convey some ideas I find about 10-steps behind relevance whether politics or journalism. What I’ve seen from the discourse is a lot of people, if they’re fans of his, trying hard to find depth or provocation in a film they initially find relatively empty. His statements on it reveal to me that he actually does have plenty of concrete ideas he’d like to convey with Civil War, it’s just that they’re dopey and inane ideas.
Hmm, food for thought. Thanks.
I mean, considering the relative frequency of both I think I'd rather have a movie with trite centrist ideas than trite leftist ideas :D
Let artists make art. Let cable news and social media generate didacticism and a lack of awareness that anything has happened or will happen outside of this very moment.
This is the kind of thematic-tying analysis I adore from The Reveal. ❤️ Four movies I would not have put together -- it's like the purple ("tricky") Connections word game on the New York Times, four words that don't seem to relate to one another but they do upon some thought.
I feel like a dum-dum for not recognizing the major's name in 28 Days Later is West -- i.e., western civ? Maybe it's a stretch...maybe it should be Newest. 😁
I’m sensing a trend. It’s getting depressing.
28 Days Later is Day Of The Triffids starting with “guy wakes up in abandoned hospital” right through to “I promised them women”. Seriously, read the book, it’s really good.
Never Let me Go sounds an awful lot like Parts: The Clonus Horror, which made for a wonderful MST3K episode.
Annihilation is Roadside Picnic/Stalker. At least the movie adaption of Annihilation is pretty good. The book reads like somebody watched Stalker once, didn't understand it, didn't know it was based on a book, and figured nobody in America had seen the soviet movie.
This is a trend that has gone on for as long as people have making things. Artists borrow, steal, recycle, and pay homage to previous works all the time. I haven't seen Never Let Me Go, but I've read the book, and it is most certainly indebted to existing science fiction concepts. But in all of Kazuo Ishiguro's novels special the premise is only important insofar as it serves as a vehicle for what really interests him (the nature of subjective and experience and the tension between how we see ourselves and our lives and the reality of them—or something like that.)
Likewise, while I agree that Roadside Picnic is a better book than Annihilation, I'm certain Jeff VanderMeer has read the former, and over Annihilation and it's two sequels takes those borrowed (or stolen, if you insist) ideas somewhere different. I think that's inevitable, actually, given what a different time and place he inhabits from the Strugatsy brothers.
Anyway, all I'm saying is, good art doesn't need to come from being new, it can come from a making an existing idea new again, or even just using it as a ladder to reach something else.