In the first entry of an ongoing conversation project about the films hundreds of polled critics believe to be the best ever made, we look at Jordan Peele's first-ballot Hall of Famer from 2017.
"Before we leave the horror films of 2016, I will make the bold statement that the first Don’t Breathe is one of the most thrillingly crafted studio horror films "
That's the boldest statement since Lance said that with his shit, he would take the Pepsi Challenge with that Amsterdam shit any old day of the fuckin' week.
And I think having the Rod digressions and him being the hero at the end work very well. It’s more optimistic (and probably unrealistic), but the that side story becomes about a black everyman thinking something sounds sketchy as shit, following through on investigating, and having the chance to see his second-hand suspicions about the virtuousness of white liberals were completely founded.
Join us in a few weeks? By my calculation, you’ll be lucky to finish this project before the 2032 results are announced! (Not a criticism, just amused.)
Very much agree with Scott re: Don't Breathe. I even like the sequel well enough as its own thing. One note: I believe Álvarez is making an Alien film - it's Noah Hawley who's doing the series.
Yes, Alvarez is making the film. I meant "series" in reference to the other movies, not remembering that Hawley is making a show out of it. (Oh boy...)
Count me as another huge fan of Don't Breathe! Stephen Lang can do no wrong in my eyes -- and that reveal in the basement, one seriously demented (and yet very plausible -- the beauty of great writing, making the initially unexpected in the end quite inevitable) OMG moment I'll never forget. BTW, Lang's character's full name is Norman Nordstrom. Norman, of course, recalls Norman Bates, but I love that his character's name is basically No No -- something I uttered many times while watching the film ("Oh god, no no no!").
As far as the ending of Get Out goes, yeah, there's no way Chris getting shot is the right ending. Yes, it may be the culturally/morally correct ending, but the movie is bonkers and it's also funny (Lil Rel Howery is the secret weapon of the film -- his humor is the wine to go with the cheese) and within the world of the movie that Peele presents, Chris dying would almost feel like a cop-out, a forced "lesson" where the lesson isn't in the offing.
I admire the way GET OUT implicates the audience. It's something that many horror movies attempt, perhaps to justify the violence they depict. GET OUT is much smarter about it, placing us right in the racial themes. There is a clear reason that Peele shoots Chris's tear-streaked face staring right at the camera. It's an unshakable shot and so well acted.
I wonder if Get Out is destined to always be The One movie that is Peele's Consensus Best? I've loved all three of his movies but the trajectory he's on shows him getting more subtle and more shaggy plot-wise and I suspect Get Out's relative lack of those two things helped make it such a success (plus the first movie from him getting advance buzz as legit scary).
They touched upon this in the conversation, but I think Get Out is one of those freak accidents of timing. Peele had no idea Trump would win the election just a few months before the release. It was Trump's shock election that set the scene for that wild catharsis in the last act. So I don't think we can ever count on Peele getting this lucky again, no matter how much talent he exhibits.
I almost don't think it's luck, though. Trump is an extreme case, but Peele exhibits a pretty strong understanding of the country's racial dynamics, which would have remained in place even if HRC was elected instead. You could almost imagine the idea for this movie coming into his head the night of Obama's election, when commentators were getting a little ahead of their skis in signaling a new, post-racial era. Peele knows better and targeted the film accordingly.
You're right. It is a demonstrable fact that Peele had the entire movie in mind before Trump's election. After all, he quite literally shot the entire movie before November of that year, albeit with that alternate ending. But the Get Out that did emerge, the one we saw in theaters in January 2017, I think was amplified A LOT by the unexpected outcome of the election. I think the horror (and comedy) of Get Out would have been there regardless, but the catharsis in the last act when Chris goes on his Tarantino-ish revenge rampage was as much a byproduct of the news as anything in the text of the film itself.
Ps. I'm not trying to detract from Jordan Peele's accomplishment. He deserves his laurels.
Unrelated to anything written except a single, tangential note of a sentence...
Fwiw, Yi-Yi was on the 2012 poll (barely in the top 100).
Cross-checking it seems unclear if it's from the 21st century or not.
The BFI site says 1999, IMDb and letterboxd say 2000.
I guess there's also the wrinkle of people who count years starting at 0 or 1, but I'm going with the social convention that we start at 0 and 2000 is part of the 21st century.
Now if I could only remember much about the movie that I'm pretty sure I know I saw it the last ten years. Lots of people forgetting why they entered a room. I definitely remember relating to that part. Well, maybe I'll revisit it when you two eventually get to it.
I’m so glad you guys are doing this. What a great idea. Great read too. Would def recommend checking out Ganja and Hess. Fabulous film. And Horror Noire is 100% worth the watch. It’s entertaining, informative, and you can come away with a really stellar To-Watch list.
To your note about the men being praised as if on an auction block: I appreciated on a pre-Nope rewatch how, while the grandpa in the gardener and the Olympic photos bring up tropes of black physical superiority and white physical insecurity, Stephen Root’s desire for Chris’s eyes reflects the liberal covetousness for the black *aesthetic sensibility*. They don’t just want to be strong like a linebacker, they want to possess the perspective and ornamental markings of black people. It’s very “House Dems wearing kente cloth.”
No discussion about whether it was white liberal guilt that put this movie in the top 100? I (a white liberal, incidentally) am a big fan of it, but I believe a few hundred movies are better. Regardless the movie's quality, I think it got on the list in part thanks to some "Oh, here's a respected movie about racism we can easily embrace to symbolize our non-racism." sentiment, as well as some non-American voters who rejoiced to see a movie critical of America.
Just seeing this now, and yeah, I think the whole "the list is too woke now" argument played out sufficiently on the post about Jeanne Dielman and no one had the appetite to have it again. But I think this is fundamentally a different discussion.
For me, GET OUT is basically a more artful but more thematically muddled take on THE STEPFORD WIVES, which ranks at #9076 on the They Shoot Pictures, Don't They? list. ("Men want to enslave women" is, I think, a tighter message than "White people want to steal black bodies so they can...pretend to be creepy maids, I guess?") GET OUT is better-directed, works better as horror and as comedy, and is generally a much better movie...but for it to have gotten to #95 on this list, quite a lot of people had to rank it as one of the ten best movies ever made, and I don't know if it will stand the test of time and be regarded as a masterpiece on that level. I absolutely bet some of its votes came from guys like you and me who, in our eagerness to not be seen as Dean Armitage types, went out and voted like Dean Armitage types.
If you'd asked me in 1998 to list the ten best movies ever made, I absolutely would have included THE TRUMAN SHOW - because of everything it had to say about the moment we were living in. And it's proven more prescient than anyone in 1998 could have imagined. And 25 years later, no one remembers it exists. On the other hand, if I'd been around in 1975 and you'd asked me if JAWS was a great movie, I'd have said, nope, multiplex fluff - because it's easy to dismiss the new thing. So, I mean, we'll see down the road if it stands the test of time.
Aw, I still love it in a nostalgic kind of way, and if I were to make a list of my pure favourite movies with no attempt to be "objective" about what's "best", it probably even cracks my top 100, but it certainly does not feel like an Important Film to me in the way it did when it premiered. (I mean, I was 13 then, too.)
One more thing to say about GET OUT: I do think, in addition to the undeniable debt the plot owes to THE STEPFORD WIVES, there's an Ira Levin vibe in general. I rewatched ROSEMARY'S BABY yesterday, and part of the genius of it is, it's absolutely crystal clear by the end where Guy, Minnie, and Roman stand. But I've seen GET OUT five times and I cannot tell you if Dean actually would have voted for Obama for a third term if he could have. Like, is the joke "white guys' feigned liberalism is a complete put-on", or is it "white guys' actual liberalism doesn't keep them from actually upholding racist systems when it benefits them"? I think either of those is a great satirical point, and I feel like the movie doesn't sell either one of them.
"Important" isn't something that matters much to me when considering the worth of a movie. The Truman Show is superb in so many ways, appealing to me on emotional, aesthetic, and intellectual levels, that I consider it great. (Fun fact: I was twice your age when it was released!)
I agree that Get Out is thematically muddled. My take was that Dean is blind to his own racism. He WOULD vote a third time for Obama. I think that's who Peele was aiming at: liberals who aren't aware of their own racism.
"Before we leave the horror films of 2016, I will make the bold statement that the first Don’t Breathe is one of the most thrillingly crafted studio horror films "
That's the boldest statement since Lance said that with his shit, he would take the Pepsi Challenge with that Amsterdam shit any old day of the fuckin' week.
Rod isn't driving a police car at the end. The door says "Airport" or something; it's a TSA vehicle.
Oh damn, that was stupid of me not to double-check something that obviously off. I will correct.
And I think having the Rod digressions and him being the hero at the end work very well. It’s more optimistic (and probably unrealistic), but the that side story becomes about a black everyman thinking something sounds sketchy as shit, following through on investigating, and having the chance to see his second-hand suspicions about the virtuousness of white liberals were completely founded.
Anytime is the right time for a well-placed slap at NPR!
Join us in a few weeks? By my calculation, you’ll be lucky to finish this project before the 2032 results are announced! (Not a criticism, just amused.)
We're committed to this whole S&S (and newsletter project). Grateful we have the time.
At the pace we were thinking we'll be done in.... let me do the math. OK, it's going to take a while.
Hey by the time you get to it I might have actually had time to watch Jeanne Dielman
And I'll probably be going over retirement plans at that point.
Very much agree with Scott re: Don't Breathe. I even like the sequel well enough as its own thing. One note: I believe Álvarez is making an Alien film - it's Noah Hawley who's doing the series.
Yes, Alvarez is making the film. I meant "series" in reference to the other movies, not remembering that Hawley is making a show out of it. (Oh boy...)
Count me as another huge fan of Don't Breathe! Stephen Lang can do no wrong in my eyes -- and that reveal in the basement, one seriously demented (and yet very plausible -- the beauty of great writing, making the initially unexpected in the end quite inevitable) OMG moment I'll never forget. BTW, Lang's character's full name is Norman Nordstrom. Norman, of course, recalls Norman Bates, but I love that his character's name is basically No No -- something I uttered many times while watching the film ("Oh god, no no no!").
As far as the ending of Get Out goes, yeah, there's no way Chris getting shot is the right ending. Yes, it may be the culturally/morally correct ending, but the movie is bonkers and it's also funny (Lil Rel Howery is the secret weapon of the film -- his humor is the wine to go with the cheese) and within the world of the movie that Peele presents, Chris dying would almost feel like a cop-out, a forced "lesson" where the lesson isn't in the offing.
I admire the way GET OUT implicates the audience. It's something that many horror movies attempt, perhaps to justify the violence they depict. GET OUT is much smarter about it, placing us right in the racial themes. There is a clear reason that Peele shoots Chris's tear-streaked face staring right at the camera. It's an unshakable shot and so well acted.
I wonder if Get Out is destined to always be The One movie that is Peele's Consensus Best? I've loved all three of his movies but the trajectory he's on shows him getting more subtle and more shaggy plot-wise and I suspect Get Out's relative lack of those two things helped make it such a success (plus the first movie from him getting advance buzz as legit scary).
They touched upon this in the conversation, but I think Get Out is one of those freak accidents of timing. Peele had no idea Trump would win the election just a few months before the release. It was Trump's shock election that set the scene for that wild catharsis in the last act. So I don't think we can ever count on Peele getting this lucky again, no matter how much talent he exhibits.
I almost don't think it's luck, though. Trump is an extreme case, but Peele exhibits a pretty strong understanding of the country's racial dynamics, which would have remained in place even if HRC was elected instead. You could almost imagine the idea for this movie coming into his head the night of Obama's election, when commentators were getting a little ahead of their skis in signaling a new, post-racial era. Peele knows better and targeted the film accordingly.
You're right. It is a demonstrable fact that Peele had the entire movie in mind before Trump's election. After all, he quite literally shot the entire movie before November of that year, albeit with that alternate ending. But the Get Out that did emerge, the one we saw in theaters in January 2017, I think was amplified A LOT by the unexpected outcome of the election. I think the horror (and comedy) of Get Out would have been there regardless, but the catharsis in the last act when Chris goes on his Tarantino-ish revenge rampage was as much a byproduct of the news as anything in the text of the film itself.
Ps. I'm not trying to detract from Jordan Peele's accomplishment. He deserves his laurels.
Unrelated to anything written except a single, tangential note of a sentence...
Fwiw, Yi-Yi was on the 2012 poll (barely in the top 100).
Cross-checking it seems unclear if it's from the 21st century or not.
The BFI site says 1999, IMDb and letterboxd say 2000.
I guess there's also the wrinkle of people who count years starting at 0 or 1, but I'm going with the social convention that we start at 0 and 2000 is part of the 21st century.
Now if I could only remember much about the movie that I'm pretty sure I know I saw it the last ten years. Lots of people forgetting why they entered a room. I definitely remember relating to that part. Well, maybe I'll revisit it when you two eventually get to it.
I’m so glad you guys are doing this. What a great idea. Great read too. Would def recommend checking out Ganja and Hess. Fabulous film. And Horror Noire is 100% worth the watch. It’s entertaining, informative, and you can come away with a really stellar To-Watch list.
To your note about the men being praised as if on an auction block: I appreciated on a pre-Nope rewatch how, while the grandpa in the gardener and the Olympic photos bring up tropes of black physical superiority and white physical insecurity, Stephen Root’s desire for Chris’s eyes reflects the liberal covetousness for the black *aesthetic sensibility*. They don’t just want to be strong like a linebacker, they want to possess the perspective and ornamental markings of black people. It’s very “House Dems wearing kente cloth.”
No discussion about whether it was white liberal guilt that put this movie in the top 100? I (a white liberal, incidentally) am a big fan of it, but I believe a few hundred movies are better. Regardless the movie's quality, I think it got on the list in part thanks to some "Oh, here's a respected movie about racism we can easily embrace to symbolize our non-racism." sentiment, as well as some non-American voters who rejoiced to see a movie critical of America.
Just seeing this now, and yeah, I think the whole "the list is too woke now" argument played out sufficiently on the post about Jeanne Dielman and no one had the appetite to have it again. But I think this is fundamentally a different discussion.
For me, GET OUT is basically a more artful but more thematically muddled take on THE STEPFORD WIVES, which ranks at #9076 on the They Shoot Pictures, Don't They? list. ("Men want to enslave women" is, I think, a tighter message than "White people want to steal black bodies so they can...pretend to be creepy maids, I guess?") GET OUT is better-directed, works better as horror and as comedy, and is generally a much better movie...but for it to have gotten to #95 on this list, quite a lot of people had to rank it as one of the ten best movies ever made, and I don't know if it will stand the test of time and be regarded as a masterpiece on that level. I absolutely bet some of its votes came from guys like you and me who, in our eagerness to not be seen as Dean Armitage types, went out and voted like Dean Armitage types.
If you'd asked me in 1998 to list the ten best movies ever made, I absolutely would have included THE TRUMAN SHOW - because of everything it had to say about the moment we were living in. And it's proven more prescient than anyone in 1998 could have imagined. And 25 years later, no one remembers it exists. On the other hand, if I'd been around in 1975 and you'd asked me if JAWS was a great movie, I'd have said, nope, multiplex fluff - because it's easy to dismiss the new thing. So, I mean, we'll see down the road if it stands the test of time.
I very much remember The Truman Show and still consider it a classic (it's #40 on my own list).
Aw, I still love it in a nostalgic kind of way, and if I were to make a list of my pure favourite movies with no attempt to be "objective" about what's "best", it probably even cracks my top 100, but it certainly does not feel like an Important Film to me in the way it did when it premiered. (I mean, I was 13 then, too.)
One more thing to say about GET OUT: I do think, in addition to the undeniable debt the plot owes to THE STEPFORD WIVES, there's an Ira Levin vibe in general. I rewatched ROSEMARY'S BABY yesterday, and part of the genius of it is, it's absolutely crystal clear by the end where Guy, Minnie, and Roman stand. But I've seen GET OUT five times and I cannot tell you if Dean actually would have voted for Obama for a third term if he could have. Like, is the joke "white guys' feigned liberalism is a complete put-on", or is it "white guys' actual liberalism doesn't keep them from actually upholding racist systems when it benefits them"? I think either of those is a great satirical point, and I feel like the movie doesn't sell either one of them.
"Important" isn't something that matters much to me when considering the worth of a movie. The Truman Show is superb in so many ways, appealing to me on emotional, aesthetic, and intellectual levels, that I consider it great. (Fun fact: I was twice your age when it was released!)
I agree that Get Out is thematically muddled. My take was that Dean is blind to his own racism. He WOULD vote a third time for Obama. I think that's who Peele was aiming at: liberals who aren't aware of their own racism.