I would like to use MOONLIGHT to discuss what I call the critic's fallacy - that critics are just as likely to overrate certain types of movies as any IMDB fanboy, but they remain unaware of this.
Moonlight has a great first third, a solid second third, and a fairly dull third third. It's pretty stagy at times, particularly in the final third. Drags at times. Still it's overall a pretty solid movie. But boy does it scratch every critical itch. It's a movie made by and about people of color, it has passages that can be described as "lyrical" (I just did command-F for lyrical and yep, right there in the sub-header), it's slow and beautifully mounted, etc.
So on IMDB it has a 7.4, which seems exactly right. Almost identical score to the movie I'd double-feature it with - THE PLACE BEYOND THE PINES (7.3). Another triptych using three parts to illustrate consequences over time, also best in its first third and worst in its ending. But while The Place Beyond the Pines is 68 on MC and 79 on RT, Moonlight is 99 on MC (lol) and 98 on Rotten Tomatoes.
Obviously everyone is free to love Moonlight as much as they want, but next time you're inclined to sneer at The Dark Knight or Return of the King as 3rd and 6th best movies of all time, because IMDB voters [indeed - no denying it] have such clear biases towards certain films, just remember, so do critics.
I'd like to steal this from you and do a search and replace of MOONLIGHT for ANORA, and then EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE. I'm sure I can think of a few more...!
EEAAO was a thumbs down for me. I went into it excited to see the film but what it really felt like was a Marvel movie for the arthouse crowd. It was an exhausting film and the idea that it was a "great" film was silly to me. But hey, Asian representation! Similarly I cannot believe Crazy Rich Asians has a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes.
But I truly did love ANORA and it was my #1 movie of last year, so hey
Crazy Rich Asians has that wedding scene with the flowing water, though. I think it gets 90 of 91% from just that one scene. 😁. The Michelle Yeoh movie that should've gotten best pic is, of course, Crouching Tiger. Yeoh wasn't even nominated for best actress that year.
Crazy Rich Asians also has a scene in which the main character THINKS THE POPULAR GIRLS ARE BEING NICE TO HER but, in a tragic twist of fate, THE POPULAR GIRLS WERE ACTUALLY SETTING HER UP TO BULLY HER!
It's a hilariously tween scene in a movie that ostensibly is for grownups, and that juvenile approach is reflected in so many aspects of the film. I couldn't believe people took it seriously and actually bemoaned the lack of Oscar nods for a movie that was one step removed (or one "0" in the budget removed) from being a Netflix movie about all the boys I've loved
I forgot about the awards talk for that movie. Yeah, no. I mean even the source material wasn't anything but a beach read at best. Certainly for diversity, the movie was a big deal since it made big bucks - so I think it did open the door for better movies like The Farewell, and even the likes of Joy Ride. Maybe we got Past Lives because of Crazy Rich Asians?
But, as a movie and only as a movie, I'm with you 100%. Meh/middling...
Same! I expected to like EEAAO, and it was just kind of a trifle, trying too hard for mania. I thoroughly enjoyed Anora. I wish more films were being made about broke people whose parents aren’t college educated, by people who know some of those folks, that aren’t 100% dirges.
And just for the record, I like Moonlight a lot. Certainly more than La La Land. (And I’m a white guy who likes jazz, it’s theoretically right up my alley).
I need to prioritize a rewatch, because I thought this was "pretty good" back in 2016 — 3.5 stars on Letterboxd, but no review, so I don't remember what my hesitations were. Given its success since, I'm fairly certain I underrated it. And it doesn't hurt that I found out Jenkins is a big Demme fan.
This and The English Patient are the two Best Pics I have not watched again because the first and only experience was so memorable and perfect.
"One of the most chilling shots in the film is of Paula, his mother, yelling at him in their apartment."
It's been almost ten years since I saw this movie, but I remember this scene so well. Colors shoot all around, too, right? At least that's the way I remember it (please don't correct me if I'm wrong! 😊).
Andre Holland is one of my favorite actors nowadays, and he was really hitting it around this time. He was in The Knick (the zombie-esque episode, you know which one if you've seen the series) around then, too. I recently saw him in Exhibiting Forgiveness, which is a really good movie -- quite affecting, and the art is phenomenal. And I'm looking forward to watching The Actor, which looks like a trip.
Same. But so much if this film is fresh in my mind because of its indelible images and repressed feelings. This write up makes me think maybe it is time for a revisit.
This is honestly my favorite movie of this century so far.
Another movie it owes a debt to is Hou Hsiao-Hsien's "Three Times," which I believe Jenkins credited with inspiring the three time period structure of Moonlight. Jenkins has probably been more inspired by Hong Kong and Taiwan film than any American director besides Tarantino, to a much different stylistic effect.
Good point. I should have brought up the HHH connection. And I should have also brought up the fact that I think IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK is nearly as good as this film. Come back to the fold, Barry!
Oh: thanks to Keith for posting your 2016 list. I had forgotten what a low-key great year that is; not much in the way of great crowd pleasers just a roster of very good movies that not enough people have seen. I have such a long list of movies that I need to watch, but could settle back into Paterson, Everybody Wants Some or even Toni Erdmann right now. Also, I think that if Silence had come from someone who wasn’t weighed down by Scorsese-level expectations, we’d be calling it a masterpiece.
Worth posting a link to friend of the show Mike D'Angelo's review (https://letterboxd.com/gemko/film/moonlight-2016/1/), which I kind of broadly agree with, plus one of the the other comments here saying the movie is fine, but real critic bait.
Taking a moment here to mention Nicholas Britell’s remarkable score for meeting the scale and the intimacy of the film so well. Great detail here from Britell on how he made use of hip hop techniques to craft the recurring theme for Chiron.
Yeah I watched this very distracted at a time at my life when I couldn't really appreciate it--I definitely am in the minority that prefers IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK to this. But I'll watch it again when the 10th anniversary rolls around next year
I would like to use MOONLIGHT to discuss what I call the critic's fallacy - that critics are just as likely to overrate certain types of movies as any IMDB fanboy, but they remain unaware of this.
Moonlight has a great first third, a solid second third, and a fairly dull third third. It's pretty stagy at times, particularly in the final third. Drags at times. Still it's overall a pretty solid movie. But boy does it scratch every critical itch. It's a movie made by and about people of color, it has passages that can be described as "lyrical" (I just did command-F for lyrical and yep, right there in the sub-header), it's slow and beautifully mounted, etc.
So on IMDB it has a 7.4, which seems exactly right. Almost identical score to the movie I'd double-feature it with - THE PLACE BEYOND THE PINES (7.3). Another triptych using three parts to illustrate consequences over time, also best in its first third and worst in its ending. But while The Place Beyond the Pines is 68 on MC and 79 on RT, Moonlight is 99 on MC (lol) and 98 on Rotten Tomatoes.
Obviously everyone is free to love Moonlight as much as they want, but next time you're inclined to sneer at The Dark Knight or Return of the King as 3rd and 6th best movies of all time, because IMDB voters [indeed - no denying it] have such clear biases towards certain films, just remember, so do critics.
I'd like to steal this from you and do a search and replace of MOONLIGHT for ANORA, and then EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE. I'm sure I can think of a few more...!
EEAAO was a thumbs down for me. I went into it excited to see the film but what it really felt like was a Marvel movie for the arthouse crowd. It was an exhausting film and the idea that it was a "great" film was silly to me. But hey, Asian representation! Similarly I cannot believe Crazy Rich Asians has a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes.
But I truly did love ANORA and it was my #1 movie of last year, so hey
Crazy Rich Asians has that wedding scene with the flowing water, though. I think it gets 90 of 91% from just that one scene. 😁. The Michelle Yeoh movie that should've gotten best pic is, of course, Crouching Tiger. Yeoh wasn't even nominated for best actress that year.
Crazy Rich Asians also has a scene in which the main character THINKS THE POPULAR GIRLS ARE BEING NICE TO HER but, in a tragic twist of fate, THE POPULAR GIRLS WERE ACTUALLY SETTING HER UP TO BULLY HER!
It's a hilariously tween scene in a movie that ostensibly is for grownups, and that juvenile approach is reflected in so many aspects of the film. I couldn't believe people took it seriously and actually bemoaned the lack of Oscar nods for a movie that was one step removed (or one "0" in the budget removed) from being a Netflix movie about all the boys I've loved
I forgot about the awards talk for that movie. Yeah, no. I mean even the source material wasn't anything but a beach read at best. Certainly for diversity, the movie was a big deal since it made big bucks - so I think it did open the door for better movies like The Farewell, and even the likes of Joy Ride. Maybe we got Past Lives because of Crazy Rich Asians?
But, as a movie and only as a movie, I'm with you 100%. Meh/middling...
I found Crazy Rich Asians to be not particularly funny or romantic for a romantic comedy.
Same! I expected to like EEAAO, and it was just kind of a trifle, trying too hard for mania. I thoroughly enjoyed Anora. I wish more films were being made about broke people whose parents aren’t college educated, by people who know some of those folks, that aren’t 100% dirges.
And just for the record, I like Moonlight a lot. Certainly more than La La Land. (And I’m a white guy who likes jazz, it’s theoretically right up my alley).
I need to prioritize a rewatch, because I thought this was "pretty good" back in 2016 — 3.5 stars on Letterboxd, but no review, so I don't remember what my hesitations were. Given its success since, I'm fairly certain I underrated it. And it doesn't hurt that I found out Jenkins is a big Demme fan.
Nah you were correct at the time. It's a good movie but not a 99 on Metacritic GOAT type film
This and The English Patient are the two Best Pics I have not watched again because the first and only experience was so memorable and perfect.
"One of the most chilling shots in the film is of Paula, his mother, yelling at him in their apartment."
It's been almost ten years since I saw this movie, but I remember this scene so well. Colors shoot all around, too, right? At least that's the way I remember it (please don't correct me if I'm wrong! 😊).
Andre Holland is one of my favorite actors nowadays, and he was really hitting it around this time. He was in The Knick (the zombie-esque episode, you know which one if you've seen the series) around then, too. I recently saw him in Exhibiting Forgiveness, which is a really good movie -- quite affecting, and the art is phenomenal. And I'm looking forward to watching The Actor, which looks like a trip.
Same. But so much if this film is fresh in my mind because of its indelible images and repressed feelings. This write up makes me think maybe it is time for a revisit.
This is honestly my favorite movie of this century so far.
Another movie it owes a debt to is Hou Hsiao-Hsien's "Three Times," which I believe Jenkins credited with inspiring the three time period structure of Moonlight. Jenkins has probably been more inspired by Hong Kong and Taiwan film than any American director besides Tarantino, to a much different stylistic effect.
Good point. I should have brought up the HHH connection. And I should have also brought up the fact that I think IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK is nearly as good as this film. Come back to the fold, Barry!
Oh: thanks to Keith for posting your 2016 list. I had forgotten what a low-key great year that is; not much in the way of great crowd pleasers just a roster of very good movies that not enough people have seen. I have such a long list of movies that I need to watch, but could settle back into Paterson, Everybody Wants Some or even Toni Erdmann right now. Also, I think that if Silence had come from someone who wasn’t weighed down by Scorsese-level expectations, we’d be calling it a masterpiece.
Worth posting a link to friend of the show Mike D'Angelo's review (https://letterboxd.com/gemko/film/moonlight-2016/1/), which I kind of broadly agree with, plus one of the the other comments here saying the movie is fine, but real critic bait.
Taking a moment here to mention Nicholas Britell’s remarkable score for meeting the scale and the intimacy of the film so well. Great detail here from Britell on how he made use of hip hop techniques to craft the recurring theme for Chiron.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/song-exploder/id788236947?i=1000380558797
Yeah I watched this very distracted at a time at my life when I couldn't really appreciate it--I definitely am in the minority that prefers IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK to this. But I'll watch it again when the 10th anniversary rolls around next year